Author Topic: Realistic Color mixing / painting  (Read 7352 times)

Ben

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Realistic Color mixing / painting
on: November 03, 2022, 10:15:03 AM
I stumbled upon a tech presentation from earlier this year from a team who found a proper way of implementing realistic painting behaviour into software and created source code that can be used by everyone who is interested. The software Rebelle uses this code in the most recent version and it works great. I don't know how exactly it works but it looks like it's possible to put it into ASP so I wanted to make you aware that this exists, hopefully you can use it:

https://youtu.be/Xsqtg2yRl8M

https://scrtwpns.com/mixbox/

Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 10:27:11 AM by Jack Ofalltrades

tingham

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #1 on: November 28, 2022, 06:11:04 AM
+1

Julia

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #2 on: November 30, 2022, 05:13:01 AM
+1

LCArt

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #3 on: December 07, 2022, 12:24:30 PM
+1, dunno if the dev is going to read/reply anytime soon tho... he has been away of his own website for almost 5 months, almost half a year now... what a service :\
Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 12:29:51 PM by LCArt

Viridian

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #4 on: December 08, 2022, 02:44:12 AM
It might be a question of the pricing. Pigment mixing is only available in the Pro version of Rebelle, and that one costs over 100 EUR last time I've checked.

LCArt

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #5 on: December 08, 2022, 11:23:22 PM
It might be a question of the pricing. Pigment mixing is only available in the Pro version of Rebelle, and that one costs over 100 EUR last time I've checked.
Because they are the only ones using that tech probably, see wacom for example, their prices are super high because they are the "first" ones to introduce comercial tablets and/or the reference of that market.

Viridian

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #6 on: December 09, 2022, 05:39:07 AM
Because they are the only ones using that tech probably, see wacom for example, their prices are super high because they are the "first" ones to introduce comercial tablets and/or the reference of that market.
Or the cost of licensing that technology is high and they need to offset it. Rebelle are the first to use this particular solution, but real color blending is something that is also available in the old ArtRage 6 version, which is a similar effect.

Ben

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #7 on: December 14, 2022, 05:14:55 AM
It might be a question of the pricing. Pigment mixing is only available in the Pro version of Rebelle, and that one costs over 100 EUR last time I've checked.

Well Rebelle was already that expensive before they implemented realistic color blending. I could not find pricing on the website though for mix box, no idea how much they want to get paid for that, they do however offer flexible pricing, Quote from their website:

"We have many flexible licensing options. Whether you're an indie developer or a big corporate, we'd be happy to hear you out and tailor the license to your needs. Mixbox is released under the CC BY-NC 4.0 license. That means you can evaluate it for free. You won't need to buy the commercial license until you're ready to launch your product. Get in touch with us to get the ball rolling!"

It's up to Lucky Clan to contact them, but I think now that Artstudio became more expensive it's a good time to consider something like this instead of spending a lot of time writing their own solution.
Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 05:18:15 AM by Jack Ofalltrades

barel

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #8 on: December 14, 2022, 01:45:46 PM
I’m going to go out on a limb and say the reason the price increased in the first place is probably because development of the app was unprofitable and spending more money on (or time developing) something that, talking as someone who bought Rebelle pro, is a gimmick at best probably isn’t on the table. Cases where it makes a difference are on the fringe and neither app manages to simulate traditional media otherwise. I’m sure someone is going to argue otherwise, but there’s a reason only fringe devs invested into the concept.
Unless mixing blue and yellow into green for some reason is really, really appealing to the average consumer of ipad art apps, I’d be cautious about investing resources of what honestly seems like an app in an existential crisis into it rather than something that gets people to buy the licence.
Just speaking as someone who really doesn’t want to switch to an alternative because the app stopped working with an ios update and it’s no longer maintained.

EDIT:
Also, remember the entire userbase got a lifetime sub, so as far it is concerned, nothing changed, there’s not going to be any additional revenue from it, and assuming people buy a 1 year sub rather than going all in from the start, the change in pricing is only going to be felt a year from now when the people who only got the app this week start renewing their plan. I don’t know what the price used to be, so  there could be a bit more or even less (without even considering the appeal of a sub plan) revenue short term.

Also, I don’t know if the devs are even reading this, but my perception is that bombastic brushes, mainly “sketchy” pencil brushes leave the biggest impression on casual (or non) artists from letting people play with the ipad back when the pencil was new.
ASP has a great brush engine, but the actual brushes are pretty uninspiring, and despite great support for PS brushes, PS brushes are very “old school”, and unimpressive by the standard of the extremely developed Procreate scene which is largely really hip and I guess “feel based” compared to the practical “yeah, it’s a rotating stamp with 30 spacing” of PS where half the brushes in every pack are straight lifted from a 30 year old chinese brush pack because it just works.
The wet/smudge engine in particular is very capable, but complex and horrifically obtuse with zero documentation and default brushes (and the single brush pack) are super bad and borderline useless, and unlike regular brushes, PS brushes require some to a lot of work to work the way they’re meant to.
Last Edit: December 14, 2022, 02:19:01 PM by barel

Viridian

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #9 on: December 18, 2022, 02:30:08 AM
Unless mixing blue and yellow into green for some reason is really, really appealing to the average consumer of ipad art apps, I’d be cautious about investing resources of what honestly seems like an app in an existential crisis into it rather than something that gets people to buy the licence.
That too. I have tried the pigment mixing in Rebelle Pro and found it not that useful. It is clearly trying to imitate the traditional painting experience here, but I'm not sure this would be appealing to the wider digital artist experience. Because unlike with traditional media, in digital you can just lift any color displayed directly from the color wheel.

artofbob

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #10 on: December 18, 2022, 11:18:35 AM
You can sort of mix colors in a traditional manner, if you choose the right colors to begin with. I learned this from Kyle Webster in a Photoshop demo. If you want to make green from blue and yellow, you have to choose a blue and a yellow that's in the "green direction". Once you make your green from that, you can play around with it.

I did this in ASP.

Lucky Clan

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #11 on: December 29, 2022, 04:03:02 AM
I have a good news - we are working on this now!!!

Unfortunately mixbox solution is not free so we are working on our own solution.
We don't want to use mixbox because their price is probably very high, and it would be probably closed-source library which we don't want to use in Artstudio.

It is very complex to implement so it takes time. It is a lot of math, examining many scientific papers,  testing different solutions etc.
We tried to quickly implement a "simple" solution similar to mypaint, but the effect didn't satisfy us...

artofbob

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #12 on: December 29, 2022, 11:29:17 AM
Glad to see you're working on this! Many, including me, have bugged Adobe for years to implement this is Photoshop, but they don't seem interested.

Bob

Ben

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #13 on: January 01, 2023, 01:59:12 PM
I have a good news - we are working on this now!!!


Great 👍

Lucky Clan

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Re: Realistic Color mixing / painting
Reply #14 on: January 19, 2023, 03:26:41 PM
So we have some first results :)