Author Topic: Better palm detection  (Read 5466 times)

lastaccess

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Better palm detection
on: November 30, 2020, 05:36:06 AM
I made video when I tried intentionally make canvas scatter by palm touches. Of course in real life there is not that strong wrong touch, but it happens a lot in general. It scatter canvas, it undo strokes also.

Also, what bothers me a bit is eye dropper by pencil double tap has visual micro freeze (duration about 1 sec) every 20-40 sec. Sliders don’t register first touch with finger after some time.

https://cloud.mail.ru/public/4RyH/56Q8fT4UF

Tufty

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #1 on: November 30, 2020, 03:18:18 PM
I was literally logging in just now to post about this. I was going to suggest a customizable dead zone for touch input. The left 1/4 of the screen in landscape mode would work well in my case.

Using an anti smudge glove atm to solve this issue.

Bbolger

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 04:27:51 AM
I have set it to pencil only mode with fingers just for gestures. It works great, no more accidental touches

Endoraniendo

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 04:33:59 AM
I took a pair of thin fingergloves and cut off the thumb, point and long finger (from the glove, not my hand). Cheap solution and works like a charm. When I use my iPad the glove polish it while drawing too. No palm detection problem at all.

Tufty

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #4 on: January 31, 2021, 11:56:18 AM
I have set it to pencil only mode with fingers just for gestures. It works great, no more accidental touches

I do this as well, but it always detects my palm as two finger touch and spazzes the canvas out. I have to recenter everything constantly. Just now I can’t rest my palm on my iPad without it undoing shit every time. I have to keep my palm glued to the screen for it to behave.

It’s getting really bad. I still think at least a customizable gesture dead-zone would be amazing.
Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 11:58:20 AM by Tufty

Lucky Clan

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #5 on: February 01, 2021, 05:03:29 AM
In October 2020 it was fixes, so finger+pencil touches are not activating canvas pan/zoom. You have to use 2 fingers.

Generally I recommned using Pencil Only mode to prevent accidental strokes made by palm.
You can also disable this Artstudio > Preferences > Apple Pencil >
Pencil Only' mode > Allow Finger Zoom/Pan. When it's disabled you cannot zoom/pan with multi-touch in Pencil Only mode.

Tufty

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #6 on: February 03, 2021, 09:53:26 AM
Having to tap a button every time I want to zoom/pan is unacceptable. "Just turn it off" basically. Ridiculous.

I've been using the reference panel to cover the part of the canvas I rest my palm on and it works really well. Adding a transparent "palm rest" mode to it would be fantastic.

Since it seems you can't be bothered, At the very least a simple lock position on the reference panel would suffice. Sometimes my palm will adjust the size of the panel.

Lucky Clan

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #7 on: February 03, 2021, 09:59:29 AM
Question - don't you encounter similar issue in other painting apps?

Tufty

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #8 on: February 03, 2021, 05:10:43 PM
Just tested it against procreate and infinite painter. Art studio is objectively 10x worse at palm rejection.

I would say at least HALF the time my palm makes contact with the screen in art studio it will spaz or undo.

I can record a a video later if you don't believe me.

Lucky Clan

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #9 on: February 04, 2021, 03:37:18 AM
Yes, i believe you. However video will be helpful.
Could you (and other users) answer these questions:
- does Artstudio make more accidental "palm strokes" than other apps?
- does Artstudio perform more accidental zoom/rotate canvas gestures?
- does Artstudio make more accidental Undo?
- does Artstudio call more accidental "double-tap" and "triple-tap" actions? (you can enable these actions in Preferences > Gestures)
- does Artstudio make more accidental 4-finger tap gesture to show Quick Menu?

lastaccess

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #10 on: February 04, 2021, 06:56:31 AM
I used only Procreate and can confirm that it has almost no accidental touches.

I use only Apple Pencil mode. In my case Artstudio quite often register touches of bottom part of hand and curved little finger as a two finger touch. It leads to undo if I just touched, and to zoom/move/rotate canvas if I touched and slightly moved my hand. I don’t have three and four fingers accidental touches.

As a suggestion maybe you should optimize the length between two fingers touch.  In my case its around 3 sm. If it’s too close, like only 1 sm app shouldn’t  register two finger touch. Maybe other people use different length. So, better put length slider to settings, so everybody can tune it to himself. I think this will help a lot in preventing accidental touches.

Lucky Clan

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #11 on: February 04, 2021, 09:44:21 AM
I fixed few things in palm rejection, i hope it will work better in new minor update.

Tufty

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #12 on: February 04, 2021, 10:09:22 AM
https://youtu.be/FhtctGDYh3o

Important note:
Halfway through the video, I try to redo the palm induced accidental undo with no success.
This regularly happens to me after I've made particularly long shading strokes.
This is why it's so infuriating. Poor palm rejection shouldn't be destructive to your work.

- does Artstudio make more accidental "palm strokes" than other apps?
Sometimes I can't redo so most likely. Even with pencil only mode enabled.
- does Artstudio perform more accidental zoom/rotate canvas gestures?
To an excessive degree.
- does Artstudio make more accidental Undo?
An obnoxiously high percentage of the time.
- does Artstudio call more accidental "double-tap" and "triple-tap" actions? (you can enable these actions in Preferences > Gestures)
Haven't seen this happen much. I only have double tap enabled to fill the canvas to the screen, so I'm not sure about triple tap.
- does Artstudio make more accidental 4-finger tap gesture to show Quick Menu?
N/A (Don't have this enabled.)


An alternative suggestion to the deadzone idea:
More aggressive palm rejection on the left or right side of the screen depending on which mode the interface is set to.

Lucky Clan

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #13 on: February 16, 2021, 04:35:07 AM
May I ask if you feel any improvement in palm rejection in the recent versions?

lastaccess

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Re: Better palm detection
Reply #14 on: February 16, 2021, 08:10:00 AM
There is significant improvement. Still there are some occasional touches, but less then before. I’d say its good now.

The only problem is with selections.

We have four types of it:
1. Lasso
2. Poligon lasso
3. Rect
4. Circle

I have only pencil mode. Only lasso tool uses only pencil to select (not fingers). All three other selection methods register palm touches which ruins work process and you need to waste time to undo. I think all selection methods should use ONLY pencil if “only pencil mode” is chosen.

Also, selection needs one more tweak. When you close selection with first point tap and try to undo this action, app deselect whole selection, not revert back only last step.

Tweaking these things above will improve work with selections in Artstudio.