Lucky Clan Forum

Support => Suggestions, Ideas, Bugs => Topic started by: hervampire32 on August 21, 2020, 08:23:39 PM

Title: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: hervampire32 on August 21, 2020, 08:23:39 PM
Hi.

I want to suggest a feature that will help a majority of artists that are dealing everyday with color.

I hope you can add this to your list. It's a Luminosity lock which is short for value and saturation lock. When we pick a color on the wheel or on the box and change the hue, the value and saturation will remain the same if the luminosity lock is on. I only saw this in Infinite painter.

This is so useful as we can experiment with different tints and shades on a surface without breaking the value and saturation, making it look very cohesive and unified but still very vibrant because of hue shifts.

Here's a pic of the luminosity lock in another program.

As you can see, I changed the hue 3 times but the color picker circle, did not stay on the same place when the luminosity lock is on. This is because different colors have higher saturation and value when on the same position of the color picker. So to respect the value and satu, the color picker tried to detect the same parameters on different hues. I hope Im not overrepeating things. Thank you for reading!
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: IvanJankov on August 26, 2020, 04:30:34 AM
+1

Very very very useful :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Mike Bluestone on August 29, 2020, 03:28:42 AM
I agree. Extremely useful, and it's already an option for the Hue Jitter in the brushes
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: hervampire32 on August 29, 2020, 08:50:07 AM
It is useful. As we can create hue shifts fairly easily. As we know, the skin for example doesnt only contain peach or light orange tones but also greens and blues and reds. Having to apply different colors on one object without destroying the value makes it very alive and interesting as it is not static in color but vibrant and moving the eye. Please Lucky Clan. Consider our request.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Patronex on August 30, 2020, 11:48:20 AM
+1, great idea / tool to have.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on September 19, 2020, 02:12:19 PM
Thanks for this. It is easy to implement - we already have "Preserve Luminosity" switch in Brush Editor > Jitter.
But how to make it in UI? Switch? State button?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: hervampire32 on September 20, 2020, 04:04:18 AM
Wow thanks for noticing 😍

I have here pics of what I have in mind. On the pic, the Hue slider will have this button wherein you can press it to turn the value and saturation lock on. So when that is on, even when you change the hue, the val and sat remain the same. The picker inside the circle will move around though as the hue changes.  :D

or

there can be a lock icon anywhere on the color picker panel that users can press. A switch is good too. As long as the button or switch is present in the color panel then i think its good since it can always be accessible that way. Thank you again for replying. ;D

The photo wont attach for some reason. It's always an error. So I uploaded it to my drive. Heres the pic.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T-aHfxpTND_6iNg7zc8aWqgRlTBwiA47/view?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on April 11, 2021, 10:22:24 AM
I’d like to revive this topic. It would be amazing to have this feature in Artstudio Pro for iPad. It’s already there in the brush settings, so please please please reconsider implementing it in the hsb color shifter. It would allow me to pick another color while maintaining value - making sure I don’t mess with contrasts while working. It would make my life so much easier to have this.

Here’s a short video on this feature made in Photoshop with the Coolorus Plugin. https://vimeo.com/93007724
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on April 11, 2021, 10:24:43 AM
Oh and the way I see it, it’s not actually a saturation lock as saturation affects value. Luminosity lock adjusts the saturation while shifting color so that the value is maintained. Just to clarify, I think the OG title of this thread is misleading.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Dorothyfan1 on April 11, 2021, 10:37:44 AM
Hey Lucky Clan, I’m also a user of Infinite Painter. Take a look at their implementation of the luminosity lock. It’s a toggle on the wheel itself. You press it and if you click on the hue on the circle...it causes the inner hockey puck to move to the correct value of the new color without changing the hue. Really cool. Oh..in case you were wondering before Borodante switched over to Photoshop full time he also requested this feature should be implemented. My suggestion shouldn’t be too hard to include...and I also think this needs to be done for the next MINOR release. Don’t you think?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on April 11, 2021, 05:37:17 PM
This would be a very nice feature for the color picker. The "Magic Picker" plugin for photoshop has a nice implementation, its called Tone Lock. It's a simple toggle button on the color panel to activate it. Here's a video that explains the feature and shows it in action in Magic Picker, for reference. https://youtu.be/3zAfu7xE-Jw
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on April 11, 2021, 05:42:24 PM
An interesting detail in both the magic picker and infinite painter implementations is that when you change the hue, it actually does adjust both saturation and value to maintain the "perceptual" value. You can see that is happening because the reticle in the saturation/value square auto-moves on both axes. (it can be seen happening in the vid I linked.)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on April 12, 2021, 02:18:07 AM
An interesting detail in both the magic picker and infinite painter implementations is that when you change the hue, it actually does adjust both saturation and value to maintain the "perceptual" value. You can see that is happening because the reticle in the hue/value square auto-moves on both axes. (it can be seen happening in the vid I linked.)

Wouldn’t that mean when you turn the image to black and white, the values are still different? Bc the whole point of the luminosity lock, in contrast to what you described, is to keep the exact same value while shifting hues. That is to take chroma into account while painting, so you don’t mess with your contrasts. In the video you posted it looks like the values don’t actually stay the same, although I didn’t quite understand what the toggle does exactly from how it was explained. But I think the effect wouldn’t be the same, making it a different feature?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on April 12, 2021, 11:16:14 AM
Ok, thanks for refreshing that. We will give it a high priority.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on April 12, 2021, 11:47:03 AM
Thank you so, so much! I'm really excited for this :)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on April 12, 2021, 02:23:28 PM
It's definitely a bit confusing! I suspect it has to do with the way that RGB color space works- It turns out that different hues actually have inherently different brightness values due to the color space being additive. I guess the value slider in an HSV model doesn't directly correlate to "perceived brightness," which is sometimes referred to as luminance. There's an 2 part article here that explains that phenomenon pretty clearly. Not sure if this a full answer to the question, but color space is definitely a nuanced thing! :)

https://medium.com/sketch-app-sources/mixing-colours-of-equal-luminance-part-1-41f69518d647
https://medium.com/sketch-app-sources/mixing-colours-of-equal-luminance-part-2-3e10c07c947c

An interesting detail in both the magic picker and infinite painter implementations is that when you change the hue, it actually does adjust both saturation and value to maintain the "perceptual" value. You can see that is happening because the reticle in the hue/value square auto-moves on both axes. (it can be seen happening in the vid I linked.)

Wouldn’t that mean when you turn the image to black and white, the values are still different? Bc the whole point of the luminosity lock, in contrast to what you described, is to keep the exact same value while shifting hues. That is to take chroma into account while painting, so you don’t mess with your contrasts. In the video you posted it looks like the values don’t actually stay the same, although I didn’t quite understand what the toggle does exactly from how it was explained. But I think the effect wouldn’t be the same, making it a different feature?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on April 12, 2021, 03:48:40 PM
Question - do you think you will have to lock/unlock luminosity often? Or keep it locked all the time?
I’m asking because maybe a switch in Preferences is enough?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on April 12, 2021, 05:09:13 PM
Question - do you think you will have to lock/unlock luminosity often? Or keep it locked all the time?
I’m asking because maybe a switch in Preferences is enough?

Thanks for asking and making sure! Having it in the preferences wouldn't help, as it needs to be directly connected to the hsb color shifter. You need to be able to see how it changes the color if switched on  and immediately switch it off if need be, to maintain a continuous workflow while painting. Long story short: Yes, it's going to be used often.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Dorothyfan1 on April 12, 2021, 09:02:07 PM
Don’t make this a preference setting. This MUST be a toggle on the color swatch itself. Because this is something that needs to be fine tuned constantly. There are times when this isn’t necessary so it’s a lot quicker to remove luminosity lock if it’s visibly available on the swatch itself rather than hunting for it in preferences.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on April 13, 2021, 06:24:58 AM
Ok, thanks for your feedback
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Bbolger on May 01, 2021, 01:50:39 PM
Don’t make this a preference setting. This MUST be a toggle on the color swatch itself. Because this is something that needs to be fine tuned constantly. There are times when this isn’t necessary so it’s a lot quicker to remove luminosity lock if it’s visibly available on the swatch itself rather than hunting for it in preferences.

+1
Exactly.
Very excited to see this coming to ASP
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on May 13, 2021, 07:02:10 AM
We have it implemented, ready for version 3.2. Beta version will be released very soon.

I'm only not sure how to show the "lock" indicator. Here is current version:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on May 13, 2021, 08:21:23 AM
WOW I'm so excited for this thank you!
As a user, I'm not sure how I would go about activating it judging from your screenshots of the controls there. I'd expect some kind of toggle to use in the color wheel window. But as an indicator that shows that it is currently active, the little sun icon on the wheel works well and gets the point across.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: ggermain1 on May 13, 2021, 08:32:53 AM
How long exactly until the 3.2 beta is released.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on May 13, 2021, 08:41:00 AM
Next week.

How long exactly until the 3.2 beta is released.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on May 22, 2021, 05:56:19 AM
Hey luminosity lock is working great! I’d love to see the option be present on the hue slider in the color tool bar and also in the large square color picker, when hue mode is selected (when hue is isolated on the slider). I tend to use those color pickers more than the circle! It would be nice if it appeared on the handle anytime there is an isolated hue slider, really.

The ui seems like it’s probably a bit hard to discover naturally, since the handle looks similar to all others in its default state. I’m not sure what the best way to make it look like you can toggle the state of that hue handle just by looking at it... maybe a little lock icon inside it that switches between open and closed would signal the functionality clearly. Putting that in might be an easy way to make this function get a lot more use! I’ll try to do a mock-up when I have a moment.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on May 22, 2021, 07:37:16 AM
Hey, it works for me also, most of the time. Although, I can sometimes provoke a bug when shifting the activated luminositiy lock often enough. The value gets lighter and lighter then with each shift. (I checked this by toggling the grayscale option in the reference view) I didn't manage to find the exact trigger of this behavior yet though, I'll keep an eye out.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on May 23, 2021, 11:17:02 PM
It seems that you can only toggle the state of the luminosity lock handle with a finger tap. It doesn't respond to tapping with an apple pencil, which made me think it wasn't working for a minute.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on May 24, 2021, 01:11:11 AM
I did a little mock up of a simple lock icon that changes state when you toggle luminosity lock on and off. The things I tried to make the design do were:
1 make both unlocked and locked states have the icon present to differentiate it from other slider handles and suggest in both states that it is tap-able (to help this feature be discoverable)
2 make the same icon work on all the different hue slider handle types (some are transparent, some are opaque, some are on thin bars, others are are on thicker bars)

This icon could be overlaid on the radiating lines that indicate the locked state in the current implementation, but I wasn't sure that those radiating lines would work well with the other thinner hue sliders because they might stick out. It is nice that they change the silhouette though, it might be worth adding to the others for that reason.

I tried changing the shape of the lock icon itself to be "open" in the unlocked state, but opted to just lower its opacity to illustrate the state change because of the constrained space available. I also considered putting a little "L" for luminosity on the lock, but thought it wasn't needed, wouldn't make sense in other languages potentially, and probably wouldn't look as clean.

I also played with darkening the area behind the icon for the locked state which did make it stand out more, but I felt it wasn't necessary and it was better to keep it lighter and let the color show through more.

I hope this is helpful/clear!
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Moheri on May 24, 2021, 01:38:38 AM
Cool mockups! Having the luminosity lock work on the hsb sliders aka shifting saturation while brightness adjusts automatically  to preserve luminosity would be awesome!
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on May 24, 2021, 03:04:23 AM
Thanks, glad they make sense! Yeah, the nice thing about having all the sliders be able to display the lock is that you could turn it on or off in any of the color pickers and the other ones would stay synchronized. Seems like it would make it real intuitive to use.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on May 24, 2021, 06:18:08 AM
Thanks for your suggestions. I will work on some of them later this week.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on May 24, 2021, 01:18:03 PM
Cool, thank you!
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: mattnava on May 27, 2021, 02:20:14 PM
Just checked out the new luminosity lock icon, looks really nice and clean! I noticed that in the unlocked state, its pretty hard to see when its over the yellow, green and cyan areas of the color wheel. The light opacity lines blend in a lot there. I wonder if there's a way to make it more consistently visible in those areas. maybe as it goes over that half, you could increase its opacity a bit? A minor polish thing, but it would help!
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: LCArt on May 28, 2021, 02:36:03 AM
Just checked out the new luminosity lock icon, looks really nice and clean! I noticed that in the unlocked state, its pretty hard to see when its over the yellow, green and cyan areas of the color wheel. The light opacity lines blend in a lot there. I wonder if there's a way to make it more consistently visible in those areas. maybe as it goes over that half, you could increase its opacity a bit? A minor polish thing, but it would help!

yah, hard to see, maybe keep the filled icon but with an open lock icon instead of locked, and 50% transparency or more (?)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on May 28, 2021, 05:17:22 AM
It is hardly visible in unlocked state, but it is intentional, users will notice it after changing hue.
It is clearly visible in Locked state, so it is ok.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: cygaj on November 04, 2021, 09:39:50 AM
Hello, would it be possible to completely disable the feature in the preferences? I think it's amazing that it's there but although I do not know how I do it I keep locking it on accident and it's distracting whenever that happens. Probably tapping it with my palm on accident
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: Lucky Clan on November 09, 2021, 07:36:48 AM
I don't want to add every minor thing to Preferences, sorry. It would grow to very huge list...
Title: Re: Suggestion: Luminosity lock / Value and Saturation Lock
Post by: cygaj on November 11, 2021, 03:30:53 AM
I don't want to add every minor thing to Preferences, sorry. It would grow to very huge list...

That's very fair! Sorry to have been imposing and always glad to see that you have a good idea of what you want to do and don't compromise that